Attended my first Minnebar yesterday, and it was awesome. Hung out with smart people all day, had some good discussions, spent time with friends, and learned a few things. Overall, a major win. Thanks to everyone who made it happen!
Since it was a Saturday (not company time), I took some liberties with my session choices and learned a bit about consulting and startups. I also attended sessions about online nonprofit fundraising, social web design, and curation.
The part where I rant about women
Far and away the session that has stuck with me most was "She's Geeky? Why are you geeky?" It was an introduction to the She's Geeky "unconference" coming to Minneapolis in August, coupled with an open discussion about women in technology. I was pretty excited about it.
Unfortunately, we were at a conference from which a commonly repeated tweet was, "There's no line at the women's restroom!" It was definitely a male environment. So even at a session about women, about half of the attendees were men. And they had a lot to say.
At one point - for a good 10 minutes - the conversation in the room volleyed among five different men who all wanted to tell us about how they view women and what they think should be done to empower women.
Here's the thing, men: it's not your place. It is not your job to tell us what to do. It is not your job to talk about how people should react to women. It is not your job to try to solve our problems for us.
If you want to come to discussions like this one, it's your job to sit quietly and be supportive. It's your job to listen with an open mind to what we have to say. It's your job to understand the struggles we face and decide (quietly) what you can do to support our efforts.
And, women - it is our job to speak for ourselves.
The male-dominated discussion about women in technology yesterday was inexcusable.
Let's imagine for a moment that I'm sitting in a room of racial minorities who are discussing what needs to be done to empower racial minorities. Imagine me throwing a tantrum in this room to the effect of, "You can't generalize white people like that! We're all just people! We need to get over these stereotypes!"
Now imagine that tantrum leading to me and a few other white people all talking about our experiences with our black friends, what we are doing to help them, and what we think they should be doing to help themselves.
Outrageous, right?
Yet this is exactly what we allowed to happen yesterday. We allowed men to dominate the conversation by talking about their daughters and growing up with four sisters and how that has shaped their perceptions of women, etc., while we sat and politely waited our turn.
And you know what? I think I was the only woman in the room who seemed remotely pissed about this. I was fuming, actually. I am still.
I'm angry at the men in that room. I'm angry at the women there, too. I'm angry that I looked like a jerk for being angry. I'm angry that we're all too damn polite to call each other out on this sort of behavior. I'm angry that no one else seemed to mind.
Was no one else bothered by men doing our talking for us?
We can't be role models if we're too cowed by men to stand up and say, "Let us do the talking."
Maybe I would have said it myself yesterday, but I got the distinct impression I would have been standing on that soapbox alone. And that makes me sad. We can't be afraid to ask for the stage when the topic is our lives.
I, for one, promise not to sit quietly and accept it anymore. Next time I'm in a situation like yesterday, I'll speak up. You have my word. I hope you will do the same.
In sum
That being said, I really did have a wonderful time at Minnebar. I just really needed to put that out there. It did not detract from the experience on the whole, which was most excellent. Thanks again to all the organizers, presenters, and sponsors.
Now I'm looking forward to unSummit!
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18 comments:
One of the most mind-blowing books I read in college was Pedagogy of the Oppressed, by Paulo Freire. Freire described the complex relationship between the "oppressed" and the "oppressor." Ultimately, he described how the oppressed are the only ones that can overcome oppression. In fact, extreme empathy on the part of the oppressor can end up institutionalizing the oppression, not ending it.
That said, I think you're completely justified in your post.
Interesting. You always have such insightful comments. If only they weren't from the mouth of an oppressor! (Kidding.)
Next time take the chance you will be surprised how many people support you. It's minnesota....we all need to learn when to shut up and also when to speak up. I think you would do quite well on that soap box get up there. I would listen! You are right about all the points you made and I sometimes fall into the trap of having the discussion about what I can do as a father to help my daughter, but you just summed it up nicely, she probably has figured it out and knows what to do and what I need to do is support it!
I did my lesson on this already when my daughter was having trouble on the bus and I butted in and said "oh I am gunna fix this, talk to he bus driver, find the parents, etc" The next morning before going to the bus my daughter looked up and me said "Dad I am going to take care of the boys on my bus, let me handle it first, if I need some help I will ask" I said ok you go for it, you have my support.
Guess what she handled those 2 boys and she even got them to apologize to her.
Lesson learned! More listening and support and less fixing and talking!
Thank you for posting this!
Haha. Great story, Keith! Sounds like your daughter will be a valuable member of Team Minnesota Women someday.
I know it's hard for you men to just sit idly by; you just want to help. But soon you'll figure out (or we'll show you) that we really can help ourselves.
Thanks for your support!
You were definitely not the only woman in the room that was angry. I barely got past the presenter's introduction before I was fuming and honestly, I withdrew. The whole vibe of the workshop felt fucked from the beginning and I didn't have enough left in me to try and educate. Normally I would have called that shit out and I don't feel good about not doing so. Having dealt with some deeply sexist stuff at the Start-up versus Consulting Smackdown workshop, I was done. Here's my blog post about it.
Good to know I was not the only woman who noticed. I agree with you, Amanda, that the overall culture in the conference has a long way to go before it is an even remotely inclusive environment. But where I disagree with you is the responsibility you are putting on men's shoulders to just open their eyes and change without any help from us.
In your blog post, you have not apparently accepted responsibility for any of the situations you encountered, and that's part of the problem. None of us are speaking up - particularly in a conversation that was as thoroughly wrong as the She's Geeky one was. We really should have said something.
People laughing at a slide showing sex workers when talking about selling services? That's a joke. (And by the way, when you say that sex workers sell themselves, you are implying that they are the services they are providing. Not sure any sex worker would be thrilled to hear that.)
Your combative attitude will not help the situation. If we want to make any substantial changes, we need to figure out 1. what battles are worth fighting 2. how to raise the discussion so that no one feels attacked and 3. how to work together to lift women up rather than bring down those who make mistakes.
I understand your anger, but I really think it's misdirected.
(I will write a more formal response to the presenter as well, since it's not fair to blindside in a comment like this. I understand it was arranged late, and I don't know the background of everyone involved, so I hope to be educated on why things happened as they did, and I hope that She's Geeky will have quite a different feel, for those who choose to attend.)
Good morning! I'm glad to read your comments about this.
Like Amanda, I was looking forward to this workshop. I chose to stay the entire afternoon (rather than leave early), so I could go to it. As one of the male identified attendees, I would have strongly preferred to sit on my hands the whole time. I found the discourse so insulting and triggering that it was hard to stay quiet. The assumed gender binary "men talk like this, women talk like that" talk doesn't describe me, and doesn't decribe the men *or women* or *people of any gender* that I know. Maybe I'm a Special Snowflake, but that generalizing discourse moves discussion away from actual experience and into the realm of stereotype. I chose not to stay silent in my discontent. I felt like it would be more of a disservice not to call it out. If I acted rashly, and hampered discussion, then I shoulder part of blame for making the workshop worse.
The remainder of the workshop wasn't much better. I felt like there was no agenda, and that the moderator wasn't really prepared for the intensity of the workshop, or what leading a workshop on a controversial topic really entails. I wanted discussion guidelines, redirection when the workshop got out of hand, and moderation. With proper groundrules and expections like:
1.) speak from your own experience
2.) leave room for others to share
3.) do not assume the gender, sex, orientation, or history of other attendees
4.) this is intended to be female-priviliging space
I believe many of the observed problems would have been eliminated.
I would have liked to see workshop attendees call out the junk that was happening, but it didn't seem like a supportive environment to do so, so it seems unfair to be too critical. Making attendees do the pushback work is exactly how most conferences (and tech spaces) run... the point of having this kind of workshop seems to me to be that the *facilitators* should at least have one's back. Positive intent is unfortunately not enough. It didn't feel like a supportive or safe space to me.
If I was too loud, and took up more than my fair share of space (and if I'm doing so here), I apologize. I don't think I participated in the "five different men who all wanted to tell us about how they view women and what they think should be done to empower women" crap.
On a positive note: I was glad to hear pushback around the assumption that everyone in the space identified as 'geeky', and I wish we had spent more time on the politics of particular tech labels.
@m3ggiesue -- speaking to one of your responses:
"People laughing at a slide showing sex workers when talking about selling services? That's a joke. (And by the way, when you say that sex workers sell themselves, you are implying that they are the services they are providing. Not sure any sex worker would be thrilled to hear that.)"
The PRESENTER used the term "sell yourself" and paired it with the image of the (apparent) sex workers, and compared consulting to it. If the PRESENTER would have said, "you can work hourly" and paired it with that image, at least that would have been somewhat accurate. You are confusing what the PRESENTER said, with Amanda's comment. The uprorious laughter of the room reminded me of how low opinions are among many people of sex work, and sex workers, and that they're a 'safe' group to have be the butt of jokes. It's not like that particular presentation exists in isolation either.
I'm not going to convince you to be offended. What I ask is respect and acknowledgement of my feelings of offense at that image. From your comment is sounds like you think it was 'a joke' and that no one should be offended by it. It's certainly your right to think so, but I do not share your opinion, and I don't respond well to silencing tactics.
In solidarity and dialogue,
GL.
GL, Thanks so much for your comments! I will respond more in-depth soon, but I did want to touch on one thing quickly. Re: the sex worker reply in my comment, that was a direct response to Amanda's blog post. I would recommend you read that.
I honestly don't remember (and don't think I heard) exactly what the presenter said, but I know that Amanda made a really unfortunate distinction in her post, claiming that the difference between tech consulting and sex workers is that tech consultants sell services and sex workers sell themselves.
I have read it. I sat with Amanda during that presentation. I think you're also misreading her post. The crux in Amanda's post is "when done involuntarily". When the PRESENTER said that consulting work was "selling oneself", the PRESENTER implied the link to that kind of involuntary sex-trafficking. If you want to talk about this more offline, I'd welcome it, but it's feeling like this is moving into derailing territory.
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that I think men should be totally responsible for changing their ways without help from us. I pointed out examples of language that made me feel uncomfortable and suggested that people think about what they say and use gender neutral terms to refer to others en masse. It feels like you are invalidating my contribution to the dialog of how to change the environment at tech events. I have and do call out people in person for saying things that are sexist. I understand and accept responsibility for fighting sexism (and other -isms/-phobia) and do not appreciate you saying otherwise without knowing me or my history.
I read your argument as: "Speak up, but not too much and only about some things and when you do, tone it down." If that is your argument, it's silencing and patriarchal, and part of the oppressive culture. Please correct me if I'm misreading. I am going to speak out on things that I find objectionable, whether or not those are the same battles you'd pick to fight. For someone who just wrote a blog entry complaining that they didn't stand up for themselves, it's seems harsh to call me out for not standing up for myself, and tuning out instead and then tearing down my arguments when I do say something. It's not easy to be the pioneer in such a hostile environment as you well know. You say you want to uplift women that make mistakes rather than tear them down, but I'm feeling torn down. I know we disagree about tactics, but that should not divide us completely. We should stand in solidarity. So that *next time* we speak out. I am with you, not against you.
I understand we have different feelings about the sex worker comparison. You are entitled to think it was just a joke and I am entitled to be offended by it. I found it unfunny, insulting and hurtful and your response to me felt silencing and minimizing (see derailing for dummies for more on that). So often, women have their feelings invalidated. We're too sensitive, or too angry, or too emotional. Telling me I am being combative feeds right into the culture that silences women who have strong feelings. I am not being combative, I am expressing my outrage. I understand the place for well reasoned discussion and not attacking people right off the bat and I have done my fair share of that in the past. My dialog with others is not the same as writing a blog post to decompress.
And by the way, you misread what I said about sex workers in the first place. I never said all sex workers sell themselves. I said "when done *involuntarily* is a literal selling of the self rather than the selling of services." There are sex workers that sell their services for sure. I know them. There are sex workers that have little to no agency over their lives and bodies because of the abusive and coercive situation they live in and I think that women in those situations are selling themselves (or maybe more accurately being sold) wholly. I know some of them too. To pretend like all sex workers are the same does incredible disservice to all involved.
Amanda and GL, It does seem I misunderstood your point about sex workers, and I apologize for that. It seems we are somewhat on the same page with regards to selling services vs. selling themselves. I am not educated enough on the topic to expound further.
I really do want to respond to both of you more fully and will have a chance after work this evening. Terribly swamped today. But thank you both for being a part of this discussion, and I apologize for any silencing, derailing, or minimizing I have done.
As one of the men in the room, I sincerely hope I was not counted amongst those disrespectfully dominating the conversation, but as I can only speak to my own perception, I can't exclude that possibility.
If I did say anything untoward, or that disempowered the women in attendance, I sincerely apologize.
There's a deep ignorance amongst many men entering into these sessions, as we necessarily have not experienced the same sorts of prejudices, bigotry, or misogyny as those who present as female. What many of us come to the table with, however, is discomfort with the status quo, born out of a recognition that we are part of an industry (and society) that privileges men.
Thus, I ask for clemency in your judgment. We may be ignorant, tonedeaf, or out of touch, but we all trekked down that long hallway to try and figure out how we can help address a fundamental injustice in a system of which we are a part. And before our behavior can improve in that context, we need to be aware that there's a problem. To that end, I believe that more active moderation or constructive criticism could have gone quite a long way.
I just don't want to sit by, idly complicit in this whole affair.
I hope that we can all agree that, in general, tech confs and the tech world tend to not have a lot of space for non-male folk. And I hope we agree that the tech world would be better with more voices, including non-het, non-male, neurodiverse, and a long list of others. Some conferences are better than others about this, and I'd put Minnebar on the FAILier end of that spectrum. As for why that is, I don't know the community there enough to have insights.
I feel like an instigator. It was at my suggestion that Liz presented about She's Geeky at the minnebar. Unfortunately, I was not able to be there to support her due to schedule conflicts.
The minnebar experience was important for all of us, men and women. Raz on Liz for letting things get out of control or using poor word choices and generalizations if you must but please consider:
Liz put the topic on the schedule at the minnebar. She put herself out there in the community. She started a conversation that we all need to have and keep having. There's something to admire about that.
So lets give her some credit for starting an important conversation. I don't know if anyone could have facilitated that session "perfectly" because we aren't there yet as a community. Lets talk about how we can make it better next time. We have to keep talking and keep putting ourselves out there, even if we stumble. That's how we learn and improve.
Phew! Long day. Finally a moment to really digest everything that has happened here in the comments.
GL - Sometimes generalizations are necessary to talk about big issues like this. In general, men and women communicate in different ways. While I do think words could have been chosen more carefully to express that, I think shutting down the use of generalizations completely shuts down a lot of our ability to talk about the issues.
You're right that it didn't seem like a supportive environment, so maybe I am being too harsh on myself and others for not speaking up. But I think, from a female perspective, part of what made it unwelcoming for me was the inability to get a word in among the men.
Amanda - I do not mean to trivialize and minimize your viewpoints, and I really appreciate your reply in the comments. From reading your post, all I got was scathing profanity. From your second comment I can see that your viewpoints are more thought out, but from the blog post (and my first/only impression of you), all I got was blind fury. I wasn't even one of the perpetrators of the behaviors that offended you, but even I felt attacked by your post.
I'm just suggesting that inflammatory language like that won't help anyone. So, in a way, yes, I am saying, "Speak up, but tone it down when you do."
If that puts us at odds with each other, then so be it. It's not meant to trivialize you; I just disagree prefer a less divisive approach. But at least we can agree on a goal, and there's definitely value in that.
Dan - Thanks for your support! My hope is just that men will try to defer to women in conversations like these. However, the more distance I get from it, the harder it is to be angry at men's enthusiasm/eagerness to talk about this topic.
Hmmm... Maybe that's part of the problem. :)
Jacque - Please don't feel like an instigator. Having these discussions is a good thing, no matter the outcome.
This is why I don't like attack language. There is no one person to blame here, and certainly not Liz. While this was probably a growth opportunity for her, she did the best she could under the circumstances, and I agree that we need to thank her for putting herself out there.
Thank you also for speaking up and for pushing to make this conversation happen!
Meghan -- Thank you for posting this. Responding to your post helped me get over some pent up frustration and further process the whole event.
As Jacque mentioned, this is a conversation that "we all need to have and keep having." Sometimes it will go well, sometimes it won't, but you learn more about what works and what doesn't from each experience.
So we'll get there eventually, as participants or facilitators.
I do wonder if a separate session focusing "how to support women in STEM fields without being patronizing or dominating the discourse" would be useful...
Some problems with generalizations include: they tend to be both *reductionist* and to move people away from talking from their own experiences. It can also poison environments by association. Since I am read as male, saying "men talk like this, women talk like that" implies that I talk like that. It another instance of speaking for the other, especially when the assertion doesn't speak to my experience.
I also don't know that I agree with your assertion that men and women communicate in different ways, and stating it as a fact reifies it, and takes it out of the realm of debate. OTOH, saying "In my experience, men at my company tend to use *this kind of language*, and women use *that kind of language* puts the responsibility of the assertion back onto your shoulders.
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